The Kaitlin Focus Group has in the past, and continues to be, the voice for CCC members. If you have an opinion concerning the appropriateness of the credit for 2021 or any other management practices, they should be addressed directly to Kaitlin management or the Kaitlin Focus Group.

To facilitate this and to provide the facts concerning lockdowns in 2021 there is an analysis below.

If you wish you can use the comment section below to make your views known. We will pass them all on, good and bad, to the Kaitlin management team. (Your comments will be visible on the website however your name and email will NOT be visible.)

                        Analysis of Clubhouse fees.

 Introduction 

Those of us in our community who are Country Club Community (CCC) members will have recently received an e-mail from the Clubhouse which included the following statement:

We are pleased to announce that after some deliberation the 2022 CCC rates are now finalized. There will be no increase for 2022, that is the rate will stay the same as prior to COVID, $1092 plus hst (if you decide to pay by cash, check or debit $1070 plus hst 

Also, for the 2022 season all CCC households in good standing, will receive a $150 credit to their house account which may be applied to any food and beverage purchases or golf related purchases. (golf shop merchandise excluded).

Analysis                     
This is quite different from the way that the membership fees were handled for 2021. How do the two years compare? An analysis is offered below.
2021
For 2021, the Clubhouse (Kaitlin) recognized, that due to 4 months of lockdowns in 2020, CCC members needed to be compensated for the closure of clubhouse facilities A reduction in the annual CCC membership fee was assessed at $350 (33% of $1070.00) before tax.

2022
First of all, what were the provincial lockdowns in 2021?

FROM TO DAYS
1st January 10th February 40
8th April 16th July 99
Total Lockdown 139

Data source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_Ontario

The Clubhouse had no choice but to remain closed for the dates shown. Put another way, the Clubhouse facilities were unavailable for 38% of the year.
If the same logic for reduced membership dues in 2020 were applied in 2021, the reduction in (cash) dues for 2022 would be about $407 (38% of $1070) before tax.

Instead, a $150 credit to each household account is being offered. We know that all food and beverage purchases come with both 13% HST as well as a service charge of 15%. So, this means that the $150 credit becomes approximately a $105 credit before the tax and service charge.
In Conclusion
For the 2021 membership year, Kaitlin and Clubhouse management offered a reduction in dues that appeared to be based on the time that the clubhouse was unavailable in 2020. For 2022, it would seem that a different calculation has been used to compensate for the lack of services in 2021.
Your Comments/Opinions
The above represent the facts as we see them. CCC members will no doubt have an opinion about the differences outlined. Please feel free to tell us what you think.
You can put your comments in the section below and we will make sure they are delivered to the Kaitlin management team.

104 Comments, RSS

  • Contact information provided

    Great article the clubhouse should try to remember “keep your customers happy.” This is no way to build a dedicated customer base.

  • Contact information provided

    After receiving the email from the clubhouse on December 10, 2021, we were surprised by the offer of the $150 credit being offered CCC members. Last year the membership was awarded a discount of $350. This past year the clubhouse was closed for more days which affected numerous events. The golf course operated all season, but we did not see one Backyard Party or other events that could have been done outside.

    We believe that, at the least Kaitlin should offer the same deal as last year. Comments were made that the CCC members should be provided with more benefits and then we get this ridiculous offer. There have been so many promises from this company over the years, but we have not seen any action.

    We would like Kaitlin to reconsider this offer.

    • Contact information provided

      I do not agree with having to pay the same amount as 2020 when a large amount of the time the facilities were not available.

  • Contact information provided

    My feeling in this is that this is just another money grab for Kaitlin. We have no idea what our fees are being used for. Kaitlin doesn’t wish to supply this information. I feel that our fees should definitely be lowered this year based on the number of days that the clubhouse was not used. Offering a 150.00 dollar credit is an insult to the members. Totally not at all pleased with Kaitlin.

  • Contact information provided

    I believe that members need to feel they are receiving some kind of benefit from the fees that are being charged. Not all of us are golfers, so Kaitlin needs to realize that the fees charged do not equate to what we were able to access in 2021. We are going into 2022 with more times where we will be unable to access many events as well. The $150.00 credit is an insult for sure.

  • Contact information provided

    This so called reduction is a insult to the members and their intelligence. The community has supported KAITLIN for MANY MANY years,when is KAITLIN going to start showing respect to it’s members. Lets quiz the new home buyer’s to see what their thoughts on the treatment of the members?

  • Contact information provided

    I do not think there are any CCC members who are in financial need of the $150 credit from Kaitlin. Let’s face it, this Is a token amount and it’s an insult.

    The facts are the clubhouse has been closed to members activities. The golf course, on the other hand, has done quite well and for the best part of the summer has remained open to the public.

    This is not about the money it is about the poor treatment of CCC members and the incredibly poor optics created by this mean-spirited move.

    CCC members have received very little for their annual membership. It has become a money grab, leaving many CCC members disappointed.

    Both Kaitlin Homes Ltd and Loyalist Golf Club Ltd have benefited from the Canadian Emergency Wage Subsidy (CEW). CEWS Registry Results (cra-arc.gc.ca)

  • Contact information provided

    Another example of Kaitlin’s parsimony is that they have ignored providing any compensation for the lack of backyard parties in the past two years.

    A few years ago, after we had moved to this community, I learned, after talking to long term residents and CCC members, that backyard yard parties initially were free but there was only one a year. This was changed to three parties per year with a small charge so that if members missed one party, they could still attend the others. Presumably the subsidy to host three “fee-based” parties was equivalent to hosting one free party.

    We all understand that, due to COVID, holding backyard parties in the past years may not have been feasible. If in 2023 large social gatherings become permissible, backyard parties must return. Since members have missed out on two years of backyard parties, Kaitlin needs to do the right thing and use their savings to offer three free parties in 2023. This would cover the two previous years and replace the three “fee-based” parties normally offered in 2023 with one free one.

    If Kaitlin were serious about maintaining good customer relations, this backyard party offer would be in addition to the reduction in membership dues mentioned in this article.

  • Contact information provided

    Is there a Membership Agreement/contract? In particular addressing the arbitrary behaviour of loyalist & Kaitlin, covering services provided? fees? Rather than whatever Burlington decides?

    • Contact information provided

      Its always been the same since 1997 when I moved here. In addition to all the comments (which are correct) they still owe us a St Paddy’s Day dinner. I am not holding my breath.
      I would like to hear from Kaitlin???

  • Contact information provided

    Kaitlin is a private company. As long as the profit margin is maintained there will not be any changes. Spend your money elsewhere if you want to change the current system. Money talks.

  • Contact information provided

    I would like to see my $150 credit go towards buying a rider for the club’s insurance policy.
    This rider would allow members to walk on our beautiful golf course during the off season and alleviate some
    of the stresses caused by Covid 19 and its variants. In my opinion, a win win and an act of Kindness!!

    A sweet example of this can be found in the town of Napanee. The town takes out an insurance policy for the Napanee golf course. The golf course then allows families to slide down the 9th hole in the winter and they are covered for potential liabilites.

    • Contact information provided

      I agree with a previous caller who is mentioning the positive side at the Napanee Golf Course. Let’s find something similar at Loyalist. I firmly believe that everything can be ironed out if people – including Kaitlin – are willing to come to a solution

    • Contact information provided

      I agree, with the comment above. This $150 is a very back-handed parsmonious offering. I would lke to see our golf course be used in the off season for walking and maybe even cross country skiiing which Cataraqui used to allow.

  • Contact information provided

    I must agree with the above analysis. I lived in the community for 10 years and kaitlan continuously ignore the basic business concept of ‘keeping your customers happy’, ‘retaining your customer base’ and ‘making sure that the customer get or feel they have value for their $ spent’. If any of theses concepts are gone, the customers will question ‘why am I paying’.
    I am starting to question if I should continue to keep my membership and Kaitlan should be aware that customers will continue to leave if we have to question the fees charged annually.
    Kaitlan should be reminded that raising fees annually is not the best business practice.
    Kaitlan should remember that when the customer base leaves there is no returns.

  • Contact information provided

    Kaitlin had the right approach in giving a $350 credit for the non-accessibility to the clubhouse in 2020.
    It is not acceptable or fair that they will not apply the same logic to the 2021 year, considering that the clubhouse was not available for 38% of the year. The $150 credit proposed re: the 2021 year will not
    provide any benefit to those of us who don’t use the clubhouse dining facilities. So, in effect, we don’t get any benefit of a reduction in fees re: the 2021 year.
    Kaitlin – please re-consider your proposal and provide us with the same credit treatment that we received for the 2020 year, which was fair and equitable! To ignore our reasonable request will not enhance your credibility re: fairness.

  • Contact information provided

    I definitely agree that the amount of time the club house was closed in 2021 should be reflected in the difference in fees between 2021 and 2022.

    Kaitlin should also take into considerations the restrictions that limited participation in events that did occur. What this meant was that many CCC members were unable to realize the benefits of their membership.

    I strongly agree that a $150 credit isn’t the appropriate solution given the principle that membership results in benefits. We are not supporting a charitable organization here.

  • Contact information provided

    After reviewing the LCCRA notes from the last 10 years, I find it disheartening to read the complaints and comments from back those many years are the same today.
    The advertising done by Kaitlin borders on untruths and misleading information about the features and benefits of purchasing a home here.
    For the last six years my wife and I have said let’s give them one more chance, only to arrive at the same disappointment level as in years past.
    This year a group of us decided to play golf at other courses, drink their beer, and eat their food.
    In all cases we saved money, were treated politely and welcomed back. (What a nice change)
    In our case the yearly dues allowed us to dump our grass clippings and take the occasional dip in the pool.
    That being said I think it’s time to hire a lawn service company,go to the beach and spend our money somewhere else.
    When the house prices were $300,000 the $10,000 penalty seemed like a lot of money, but with the homes approaching $900,000it’s not necessary to maintain the membership any longer.
    I guess this year we will save our money and not pay.
    Kaitlin thank you for your $150 insult, I think we will pass.

  • Contact information provided

    I am a new resident in LCC – we moved into the community in mid October 2021. We paid our LCC fees due for the balance of the year. Because of a combination of time of year as well as some COVID restrictions (not lockdowns per se, but reduced access to services), we really received no benefit from our roughly 3 months worth of fees.

    The pool and hot tub were already closed, golf was in its final 2-3 weeks, and we chose not to attend group activities indoors because of growing and fluctuating COVID case numbers. A credit for lost value last year would be nice, but we don’t expect one, because of our short time here in 2021. However, we absolutely support the general opinion that fees paid for 2021 should be reimbursed fairly in some fashion, to compensate for lost access to club facilities and services due to pandemic restrictions and closures. To be fair, the amount of compensation should consider both customer/member value, as well as operating cost impact. The latter would require that Kaitlin openly share their revenue and expense information. While we are not Kaitlin shareholders, it would be appropriate for Kaitlin to provide all club members with a summarized annual financial report for the club operations. This would also be helpful in explaining the plans for growth and expansion of club facilities, as the neighbourhood grows in size, and existing facilities become busier. In short, we should get good value for our money, and we should be able to see information that confirms that we are.

  • Contact information provided

    We, the CCC members, have not been getting the activities/services promised to us when we purchased our homes. The hot tub has not worked all Summer, again, for the second season. Backyard Parties have been nonexistent while weddings continue to be booked. We are not allowed to go for walks on the golf course cart path when the course is closed. Why?
    Why are we only offered a $150. credit for 2021 and $350. discount for 2020 when we were unable to use the facilities for a longer period of time? It is very disappointing that there is no accounting for the fees we pay. It seems that there are a lot of disappointed CCC members. What happened to Customer Satisfaction?

  • Contact information provided

    If memory serves me correct, the backyard parties were changed to 3 outings with a small fee($10.) with part of the receipts being donated to various charities from Kaitlin. I do not recall any thank you notes from charities while I was president of the CCRA.
    Now, Kaitlin is dangling another carrot with the announcement of a new $5m clubhouse.
    If we pay $1070. membership fee for a less than first class facility, imagine what the new fee structure could be if they build a better clubhouse….or is it a red herring?
    One of the biggest problems is that we grumble about our relationship with the clubhouse affair but we still pay. There is another way to indicate our displeasure….´keep your money in your pocket.

  • Contact information provided

    When is Kaitlin going to stop using LCC.members as cash cows.We deserve to be treated fairly and there is no way this offer can be considered fair.

  • Contact information provided

    I always wondered (and still do) what these fees are used for. Been here about 3 yrs and realizing after the first yr, I may have got about $50. in savings and very little use of facilities, I opted out last yr. If ever the situation drasticly improves and want to rejoin, I’m told (hopefully I’m wrong), that I have to pay the $10,000. ‘initiation’ fee (which was included in the new house purchase) again! Sure, excuse me for a minute while I get my cheque book ha-ha! Also, many members of the community are only here for 7 or 8 months of the year or are in a ‘1 adult’ household: so why are they paying the same amount as 2 or 3 adult households who many are here yearlong?? As you can imagine, I’m far from pleased with this whole (Kaitlin and their local executive staff) situation and by the way it’s being run/dictated (cannot walk on cartpaths during winter, etc.), I’m seriously considering moving on.

  • Contact information provided

    I agree with most of the comments above. The club seems to have little respect for the members. The rebate should be calculated the same way as it was last year. I will maintain my membership in 2022 but my patience and tolerance of the club management is growing thin.

  • Contact information provided

    2021 access to the facility and events compared to 2020 is same therefore the credit given is an insult. What subsidies has Kaitlin received from the government to offset your losses as a business during covid?

    That being said I am using this forum to make a general complaint about what we are getting for our fees in general. We have been living in this neighborhood for 6 years and the gym facility is substandard on so many levels and we keep hearing they will be improved or get better equipment and the space is not large enough. That has not happened.

    Your pool area is not well maintained on a regular basis especially when the leaves start to fall, the little waterfall in the pool has never worked and the hot tub is closed more than opened due to maintenance.

    The garden parties pre Covid were good however after a few years the effort put into it decreased like no more white table cloths, real cutlery, food offerings plain. Your retention of employees particularly chef’s and kitchen staff is deplorable which leads me to believe the work environment isn’t attractive. You run out of food for events!!! That would be unheard of in any food business. Who does that! It’s frozen product! You don’t have enough staff at some of these events and the ones you do have are run off their feet.

    People would use your so called restaurant if you opened it up for use on a regular basis, not shutting down early or inconsistent hours. My suggestion would have a 3rd party run that portion of the business that has experience in the food industry because clearly general managers with golf expertise don’t have the qualifications to build that part of the business.

    The New residents in this neighborhood are definitely not getting or seeing what was and could be. This is a growing community and you are not reacting fast enough to that at the clubhouse. It’s the people in this neighbourhood that make this a wonderful place to live that can’t be ignored now or in the future.

  • Contact information provided

    Considering that members had no access to the club last January,February, March and April, it appears inappropriate and unjustified to receive a mere $150. credit. In 2020, we received a 3 month reimbursement under the same circumstances. This is insulting and unacceptable to credit the money to accounts where tax and gratuity are taken. This matter should be reconsidered to keep members.

  • Contact information provided

    The offer of the $150.00 as a credit to the account of CCC members is not a decent offer for the fact that the clubhouse was not opened for most of the season. They set a precedent last year with a reduction in our annual fees, and they should follow through with the same offer this year. The question is: what are the LCC members getting for the fees? A few months of the compost & pool being opened. So many of the members also must endure continued construction in the area, with speeding cars and noisy heavy equipment curtailing outdoor enjoyment. In addition, the management of the clubhouse needs to be improved. The clubhouse could be a profit maker, but not enough events are planned and this all started before covid 19.
    The CCC members deserve more consideration and perks than is being offered by Kaitlin. I hope they see our notes and review their inadequate offer in our dues.

  • Contact information provided

    All I receive for LCC fee is availability of garden waste dump.
    Even that is on a restricted time basis.
    It’s cheaper to have grass mown and removed!
    We do not use clubhouse, pool or golf course.
    I’ve had enough of paying for nothing.
    I will definitely not pay this year’s exorbitant fee.
    Hopefully more people will see the light and bring Kaitlin to their senses.

  • Contact information provided

    The $150 credit for 2021 makes no sense compared to the 2020 credit, based on lockdown days. Kaitlin must be held accountable. Also, Kaitlin should do whatever is necessary to make the cart paths available to CCC members during the off-season. There could be signage posted restricting the use for CCC members, membership tags could be prominently displayed during use, cart path hours could be restricted to daylight, liability waivers could be signed by CCC members and/or Kaitlin could get the necessary insurance to allow use. It isn’t rocket science and it’s not unprecedented.

  • Contact information provided

    November 4th we received an email regarding some exciting news. 5 million to be invested in the Clubhouse and facility expansion . Where is the survey we were suppose to receive? And why oh why are we not allowed to walk, cross-country ski or snowshoe in the off season? Insurance liability is a lame excuse and rather frustrating when other courses around us do not seem to have this issue!

  • Anonymous

    I agree with the majority of my fellow CCC members. No discount when the club house was closed that many days is an absolute insult. The $150.00 credit is a joke!
    The only way Kaitlin will listen is if everyone bans together and refuses to pay the dues. But they count on everyone remaining complacent.

    If the Focus Group represents the CCC members why was Paul Jepson removed from the group by Jim Burlington and Geoff James. He had always done his homework and presenting the facts at the meetings which Kaitlin obviously had a problem with. He was acting on behalf of the community. I don’t understand why the other members did not question this? I guess Focus Group members are afraid to speak up.

    I feel bad for new home purchasers because they have been sold a bill of goods when it comes to a “Community Lifestyle”. I understand it didn’t take long for new residents on Greenhaven to clue into the fact that there is no value in the yearly dues. It’s such a shame because the clubhouse could be a goldmine if the right management was in place. Kaitlin has made money with the Covid grants but prefers to pocket the money instead of providing CCC members with a break on their dues. Deplorable! Not surprised!

  • Contact information provided

    I tend to look at the value we are getting for approximately $1000.00 and I struggle to justify the expense for a year!!

  • Contact information provided

    The $150 credit would only get me about 2 games of golf + a drink after and this is not enough. Last year we used the pool but the hot tub was not working most of the summer. And the change rooms were closed as well. We did not attend a single dinner or function during the year as most of the time there were restrictions in place due to the pandemic. So the value for the annual membership was not there. We think a reduction of $200 + the $150 credit would be more reasonable. Since the pandemic is a long way from being over there is no guarantee that in 2022 we will have full access to all activities and services.

  • Contact information provided

    I have been here for 3 years now and have yet to find out what my fees are paying for or covering. I am in total agreement with all of the previous comments. Sure I can use the pool (which we have to share with kids from the golf camp), use the dump area, or attend exercise classes, I do not golf. Please advise me why we have no after hours access to the clubhouse to make use of the library, gym or pool tables, etc. I do attend exercise classes but as there are not enough pieces of equipment for everyone at times, we have to use the outdated DONATED TV and out-of-date tapes. This is a disgrace. (I’m sure my fees would cover buying a new TV). New mats are also needed.
    As far as being able to use the course for walking, we are a lot more responsible than the geese or the dogs I often see running around. I don’t understand why management can walk the course with their dogs and yet there are “No Dogs Allowed” signs up. Why is there a fence at the end of Greenhaven? I really would have liked to see more positive responses to this subject but it seems there are none. Kaitlin open your eyes. There are more homes being built but really how are these people going to be accommodated? This community is not Kaitlin – it is the residents who are all amazing. My question for myself and all the other members is “What are you giving us for our fees?” If any of it is going to charity, then please disclose how much and to whom. It is after all, our money.

  • Contact information provided

    Anybody know how many community members donate to Kaitlin’s coffers, er, I mean how many pay this fee?
    Just thinking about these ‘credits’ to these fees brings up an interesting fact/question (at least to me) and I stand to be corrected: the fees were not really reduced at all for the 2021 year, as that $350. reduction was for lost facility use for the 2020 year! The insulting $150. credit being offered when paying your FULL $1,070. (plus taxes of course) membership fee for the 2022 year is for a LONGER loss during this 2021 year. With this pandemic seemingly getting worse, I’m excited to hear what kind of break will really be given (and when) for this upcoming 2022 year!

  • Contact information provided

    The residents of our community make this a great place to live. So many of us have enjoyed success in different business and are frustrated because we see Kaitlin management shooting themselves in the foot. We understand that the route to long term success requires a balance in satisfying all stakeholders.

    How are people selected for the focus group? Is there a CCC meeting where residents can vote on representatives, or are they selected by Kaitlin management?

    It would make sense to compare what we receive for our fees with similar communities. Equinelle in Kemptville is a good example. The services received there far exceed what we are paying for and last year the Equinelle residents paid nothing.

    I am curious who these comments will be sent to and what response we will receive. It would be preferred if these comments could be sent to someone in Kaitlin management who has the authority and the desire to improve the relationship with residents. I don’t believe the issue here is the $150 rebate. I believe the issue is that Kaitlyn management does not understand the importance of all of all stakeholders. Their focus is only on their own short-term benefit at the expense of their customers and employees.

    Will we receive an update on the outcome of this forum?

      • Anonymous

        THE ONLY WAY KAITLIN WILL LISTEN IS IF EVERYONE STOPPED PAYING THEIR DUES. On the plus side Burlington got his way…he has driven everyone away from the clubhouse by charging exorbitant prices (shareholders won’t even have a beer at the clubhouse after golf, they go to each other’s houses) as we have a new restaurant Welbourne Commons opening up mid January.

  • Contact information provided

    The offer of $150. is a “first offer” by Kaitlin. If there is sufficient backlash from the CCC members, they will then “up” their initial $150. offer, making us all so happy and grateful that we will accept it and be ever so grateful. This is the manner in which Kaitlin, and other businesses, operate; make a ridiculous low offer, negotiate the amount, then offer the amount they originally had in mind. Kaitlin’s eternal bottom line is money. Total withdrawal from CCC membership would be the only way to drive home to Kaitlin that their conduct will no longer be tolerated.

  • Contact information provided

    The Loyalist Community is a wonderful community to live in thanks to the people who live here. However, the management of the clubhouse have little to do with this. There is one exception to this – the food and beverage staff go out of their way to be customer focused. They realize that without customers, they would not have a job!

    Clubhouse management does not seem to grasp that concept. They do not realize the potential goldmine they could be operating if they worked in co-operation with the residents. There is a wealth of experience in this community of retired and semi-retired professionals from many walks of life. Instead, we have an oligarchy that makes decisions independently while pretending to consult with the community.

    Clubhouse management makes it sound like they have done ‘extensive thinking or deliberation’ but with whom? We supposedly have a Focus Group that represents those of us with CCC memberships, but they seem to have rolled over and gone back to bed. As someone else mentioned, if Paul Jepson can be removed from the group by Jim Burlington & Geoff James, who is running the Focus Group? Seems like Clubhouse Management has taken control over this too!

    Did they discuss the 2022 CCC fees within the Focus Group when they last met? Doubtful – this decision for a $150 credit was likely made by a committee of 2. As others have mentioned, this is an insult to all CCC members. To be consistent, they should give a rebate similar to last year. We are getting very little for our fees and management seems to think that we will keep paying without any accountability on their part.

    Use of the cart paths in the winter would be a small gesture for them to offer, but they spend more time and expense to put up signs to keep residents off. On the other hand, if you are staff, you can not only use the paths, but walk your dogs and not pick up after them!

    There is no question that the Clubhouse is being grossly mismanaged. Perhaps if we all stopped paying fees, Kaitlin might start listening. How do we get this ball rolling?

  • Contact information provided

    Well was I surprised when I saw the token offer for 2022 from the country club not in the least.
    Take note Focus group we are not happy with the home builder or the management of the golf club.
    Regardless of the reasoning for closing this past year we did not get much of anything for the dues paid.

    Consequently the offer made was an absolute insult and clearly shows how little this management group values us as members. A reduction of at least $450 is needed.

    I would like to see a swim pass for the summer introduced for those people like myself who have now had more than enough of this so called club and games they play.
    ALL I want is to swim in the pool with my children.

    I will say it again Focus group take notice and get working on some positive changes or fold your cards and withdraw.
    From an angry and very disappointed member.

  • Contact information provided

    I’ve lived here for a while. I’m only an occasional golfer but from what I can see and have experienced the golfing side of Loyalist seems to be well run and the golf course seems to be one of the best in the area.

    When it comes to the amenities/social side of Loyalist however things couldn’t be more different. The consensus among my friends and neighbours is that the social side of the Club has terrific potential and could/should be a real money maker. Why this is not the case and why Katlin/management does not seem to be at all interested in this side of the Club leaves us scratching our heads. The Club currently has the best Food and Beverage manager and (until recently) an absolutely First Class Chef. Together these two put on some of the best dining events anywhere. The Club sould have a reputation as the best venue for miles around but it doesn’t.

    And then we get to the question of Annual dues and credits. What do we get for our Annual dues? Not very much. And the illogical credit due to club closure. Are they thinking that we wouldn’t notice the discrepancy? And are the thinking that we wouldn’t notice the non-functioning hot tub and waterfall at the pool? Clearly maintaining and building amenities and good social relationships (aside from golf) with its members/customers is not part of Katlin/managements agenda.

    If there is one impression that Katlin presents to the non-golfing side of the club it is: Pay your Dues, shut up and go away.

  • Contact information provided

    I agree with many of the previous comments.
    I feel, at the very least CCC members should be compensated for the lack of Club House services this year with an equal or greater reduction than 2020 to their Annual CCC Membership Fee.
    This is a friendly, welcoming community due to the residents that live here, unfortunately that feeling
    seems to be missing in management.

  • Contact information provided

    For the past couple of years I was have been considering giving up my membership and probably would have done it last year except for the discounted fees given to members. I am not a golfer, don’t eat or drink at the clubhouse, therefore $150. means nothing to me. The gym equipment is limited, we can’t walk the paths in winter, what value am I getting. A gym membership is better value for me I feel.
    I find Kaitlin’s treatment of us is disrespectful, even insulting. Accountability is long overdue.

  • Contact information provided

    After reading the many comments submitted by my fellow LCCC residents, I was struck by the commonality of the negative tone.
    Few (or none) seem to approve of Kaitlin’s stewardship of the golf courses amenities, specifically the Club House, Pool, Restaurant, and off-season access to the cart path.
    And I agree 100% with them.

    While I think that Kaitlin is doing a great job with golf course itself, they seem to be struggling with understanding and serving the greater golf course community.

    I would also like to add the following.:
    Why can’t Kaitlin be more transparent with the LCCC’s finances? I understand that they are a private corporation and as such not bound to divulge their financials, but a little more transparency along with the release of targeted numbers would do wonders in answering members specific questions on how the Clubhouse is being run at present, as well as what is truly possible moving forward.

    The Club House hours too, short as they are, properly serve few. Locking the doors at 4 pm is akin to old school banker’s hours. They are convenient to the corporation, but not their customers and speak loudly to the patriarchal relationship that Kaitlin has with the rest of us.

    One final comment.
    I don’t believe that any members of the focus group have weighed in with comments or responses. I am not sure if their position officially prevents them from responding, but a little more openness here would help immensely. Making meeting minutes available would be a great first step.

  • Contact information provided

    I believe the focus group members were selected by Kaitlin to obtain feedback on items they wanted feedback on. I agree with the majority of comments from others. In fact, I understand the feedback provided by the focus group is similar to that provided by a similar group 10 – 15 years ago. Just ask some of our neighbours who were on the focus group back then.

    As such, I believe this is an issue the our LCCRA executive must discuss directly with Kaitlin. As a group, the LCCRA represents the largest group that has a financial relationship with Kaitlin. Our impact is only strengthened by our numbers. Until the financial impact of our group is recognized by Kaitlin any response, or lack thereof, is simply window-dressing to appear they are listening.

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    What I constantly hear from others is that the fee is too high for what we get. Outside of exercise classes (run by volunteers, not professionals), access to the pool in the summer and a 10% discount on purchases, what do we pay for? Some people question whether or not we are actually supporting the golfcourse.

    I also agree that the $150. credit is an insult

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    After reading all the comments on this issue, it appears that Kaitlin, over the years, has promised much more than it has delivered! It is clear why so many people no longer want to pay the annual fee for inadequate services from the community Center. They can get better services in the Loyalist community at a much lower price. Some fitness clubs are well equipped with indoor heated pool and they are opened 24/7! In addition, this community is growing at a rapid rate. The gym, hot tub and swimming pool are already not sufficient to accommodate all its members. Is this customer satisfaction and service? We essentially did not get anything for our prorated membership fee for this Fall. We are willing to try the facilities for 2022 but if we are not satisfied, we will not be interested in renewing. It could be appealing to join a larger fitness club! We are not golfers and therefore, we have nothing to gain from that! It is obvious that Kaitlin is gouging their customers with both the community Center fees and the upgrades on their new homes. The quality and workmanship on their homes do not justify the prices.

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    Pls bear with me as I leave 3 points:
    1) NO way do we get back quality for these community fees! I would be only too happy to pay a $100. or even $200. Membership fee then an extra charge for a ‘Summer pool pass’, and even another charge for a 24-hr fitness room pass, even a golf discount pass, etc. Those of us who only use one facility for a few months should not have to donate so much to help this ‘business’ survive nor to subsidize those who use all facilities: especially when these facilities are only available a few months a year.
    2) lots of members I spoke to during the past yr, and as stated by a few comments above say “we’ll try it again this year then make a decision”! I believe Kaitlin and Club management have heard this for many years and thus will continue to put improvements on the backburner. I therefore believe the best and only way to get action is to NOT pay anything until later in the Spring or summer AFTER you see improvements! I do not recall seeing anywhere in a contract (other than in Club staff memos) stating that the fee must be paid by a certain date.
    3) Finally, I will digress a bit by voicing a common complaint against Kaitlin by Country Club home owners: I/we bought a property here to retire in peace and quiet (and for most of us, some golf of course). Unfortunately, that is not the case! We cannot sit in the front of our homes because of numerous and loud commercial vehicles driving by, along with many speeding contractors. The street is muddy during and after periods of rain and very dusty when not raining. There should be another way to get commercial vehicles past the built homes (maybe a temporary hard gravel road along the west side of the golf club property, on the other side of the forest? Could be paid by adding another $5K to their new home prices: I would think someone purchasing a $875+ k home would still buy it at $880+).
    After these complaints, I do feel kudos should go out to Golf course staff for the beautiful views I get to see while sitting on my BACK deck: they keep the course lovely and in great shape! My compliments to them for their dedication!

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      Re. Point 2: so what could/would Kaitlin or the Club do if everyone held back their membership fees? Limit pool and hot tub use (when it is open) to camp kids? Close that fitness room? Raise prices in the restaurant, golf fees, beer cart? Methinks measures like that would only be shooting themselves in the foot. So really, community members are in the drivers seat!
      Re. Point 3: these disturbances are likely going to last for ONLY 8 to 10 years!
      Additionally, membership fees such as Kaitlin has been collecting are usually seen mostly in private and GATED golf communities (only access to golf facilities are sometimes public).

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    We stopped paying the CCC annual fee seven years ago for all the same reasons cited above by current residents. No regrets. The value proposition does not make sense.
    The notion that not having a “membership” attached to your property will somehow impair the resale value of your home has been disproved by the current resale market.
    Current club management is the issue. Katlin needs to bring in an experienced businessman to fix the current situation…someone who understands customer service.
    Driving paying customers away from the club is not a good long term business plan.

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    Kaitlin has slowly eroded the services that were originally provided. Now we are down to basically nothing for our money but a snarky manager who has no comprehension of customer service good or bad. Somehow the Daniells family condone this behaviour so we only conclude the approved.

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    We purchased a home 4 years ago, and paid the annual fee for the first 2 years. We then quickly realized that there was absolutely zero value in it. Yes you got a nice pool, but it’s unheated. For the amount of times we used the pool, we could purchase a gym membership where there are modern amenities for much cheaper.
    I hear a lot of complaining above. I feel ‘money talks’. If you stop paying, then maybe someone will take notice and action. If Kaitlin wants my membership back, they’ll need to void the “$10,000.00” initiation fee, and actually provide value for the yearly membership.
    There is so much the clubhouse could do – provide elegant Sunday bunches with live music, update it’s gym equipment, heat the pool, provide 2 free tee times, have more ‘members only’ golf days, just to list a few things…

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    Some thoughts after being asked recently for an opinion on the latest Kaitlin/LCC stir about 2022 club memberships, and assessment of Loyalist CC over the years.

    Many will remember the reception at the Loyalist GC Club golf course in 1994 at the “1960s vintage camper trailer/pro shop” located across from the current unsightly blue scoreboard as crusty, the attendant trying to a welcoming yet masked professionalism yet letting customers know this was to be a living, playing and retiring golfing environment and a responsible healthy decorum wanted.

    The Loyalist emblem was proudly evident on the assortment of shirts, hats, visors, golf balls et al for sale, far from the stale array of golf shop clothing now on sale.

    The “Ted Baker” designed nine hole course, now the back nine, with lush and pristine grass from tee box, to fairways, to greens, sand in the traps, not the promised “Ohio” white sand, nonetheless, freshly painted ball washers and the odd bench beside tees. Signboards and eventually stone markers outlining each hole were distinct. Water was available to fill one’s drinking container, and there was a “johnnie or a joannie” at the 5th hole.

    There were white stakes adjacent to the exterior of the course–no white stake implanted barriers abutted fairways and no memos from “Management” were received forbidding an enjoyable golfing experience. Prices were moderate, expensive compared to some nearby courses, yet not unreasonable to play on a new exemplary course.

    “Management” were not a nameless team of ownership yet were committed to facilitating an enjoyable recreational golf experience on a lush and pristine golf course followed by an inexpensive refreshment or lunch or dinner thereafter, more often than not!! After all, it was a new busness venture in the area.

    With the arrival of construction of more and more homes, resident golfers, mostly retirees, enjoyed their new residence and lifestyle, met new friends, played golf and socialized in the clubhouse atmosphere, felt respected, and not encumbered by arrogance, rudeness, ineptitude, inequality, or overpricing or deceit.

    The attitude was very different than today’s atmosphere. The Loyalist computer website didn’t exist let alone was it advertising “the best conditioned course in the area” “where the pros play” and offering shotgun tournaments for non residents.

    For the most part, It was a welcoming community and lifestyle, not deceived.

    The original concept was to endear people to buy a home, enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, play golf and make friendships, retire for a fulfilling life!!

    The course received rave reviews, especially when one considered playing surfaces on other courses in the area, excepting Cataraqui, which also had the distinction of being private to members and guests and upscale with curling and dining privileges, and of note being a “Stanley Thompson” designed course.

    A very different living and golf experience than ever before was offered in this area–sadly it is not as lush and pristine today, community regardless of Covid and now shows signs of significant wear and tear after 27 years of living and playing.

    Current players can offer their own interpretation of current course conditioning–it is not as pristine and cared for as per past playing conditions, with today’s differences of tees, bunkers lacking sand, cart paths not usually well maintained except for tournaments, even aging fairways and greens in need of more than ever, a rebirth if you will.. The geese didn’t drop in for a “sh–“, visit or laze about in their fairway or green spas or pools in the original era.

    Other courses, some nearby, some elsewhere in North America and around the globe are maintained more superior to Loyalist, and are reasonably priced and services to its resident base or tourists or occasional golfers are genuinely offered. commensurate to the base.population.

    The first resident population felt proud and enjoyed living in the community, “members” if you will, with a few perks, more importantly a comfortable living environment with the added bonus of a golf course on sight, no need to travel far and wide to enjoy retirement. Folks would walk their dogs on their adjacent cart paths year round, the dogs from time to time chased away the geese, carefully kept in check by caring and considerate pet owners–empowered they felt to look after “their club” acting and committing to preserving their living and playing environment.

    No Director of goose Security. No unnecessary expense!!

    Residents were not sanctified/authorized nor told to not walk on golf course during non golfing times nor did they receive memos from “Management”. They wanted to preserve their club regardless, and in the spirit of acting responsibly for the environment.

    Far be it now for Kaitlin and Loyalist “Management” to revert from its current tsarist policies and practices.

    The homes abutting the golf course were not marked by unsightly white stakes denoting a barrier. Barriers didn’t provide a welcoming experience, nor necessary or explainable.

    Change is needed again, and some of its former practices would be welcomed.

    Not all, for sure, but some!!

    Seems though that a totally fresh management team offering a welcoming human interaction each and every time, free of rudeness, free of local cliquish biases would renew and strengthen the collective homeowners’ desire for inclusion, equitability, transparency, honesty and integrity when on the golf course, on the cart paths in non golf hours, or in the clubhouse pro shop, bar or dining room.

    “Management” not gouging or overcharging for a Toronto priced beer or glass of wine or dinner. would bring more community members more often to the club.

    Many long term customers and clients recognized the realities of the same current issues occurred several years past and memberships were not long ago, the same Kaitlin and Loyalist CC policies, operational practices and attitudes permeating now as then.

    Kaitlin and Loyalist CC local management didn’t listen well then, don’t listen well now, the same struggles still exist and will continue under as long as current policies, practices and attitudes prevail, managed by existing tenured staff and their conscripts.

    Shame for Kaitlin not having had the awareness to recognize its need to reform its image, and make its community base of residents “feel” fully appreciated!!.

    Kaitlin’s recently announced strategy to spend facility $5 million upgrades to the Loyalist CC facilities doesn’t make much sense, to many current long term residents home owners.

    Unless it is to build Kaitlin’s profit margin by charging more exorbitant prices to future residents, or act as a small part of a larger corporation.

    The increasing number of people relocating here into new homes on this side of the county road let alone the other side of the county road, only spells less services and stewardship to all residents years forward, rather than Kaitlin suitably addressing its “now” community issues.

    Kaitlan and Loyalist ownership and management created their own “past ” issues , their “now” issues. and they need to fix their “now ” issues–now!!

    They are also creating their own “future” management issues without ideally addressing current issues.

    If rumors are “now” accurate, Kaitlin’s continuing public, human relations and personnel “Over the Hill Gang and Clan” strategies are not the changes the residential community members clearly seek . Kaitin has tarnished its image under its current regime!!

    The recently announced provision of services for the yearly $1200 CCC fee with rebate seems off the mark, the same money could be spent for more valued products and services elsewhere, more so than the enticements from the pool, non working spa and occasional “free barb que “et al provide.

    Free does not exist in Kaitlin or Loyalist nomenclature, or elsewhere.

    It is not clear how long Kaitlin will remain as golf course owners before selling the golf course ( long rumoured but not actioned to be for sale) and curtail its housing development operations. Market conditions are changing as we all know.

    A much less expensive $100k to $300k spent conducting and implementing a comprehensive human resources evaluation and plan, upgrading public relations, enhancing personnel and community interactions, (is a golf professional necessary, maybe a teacher), implementing strategies that avoid white stake and and personal interaction barrier would yield a more fruitful and resilient residential and community lifestyle.

    More likely such changes would foster more profitable Kaitlin and Loyalist financial outcomes for all..

    Also, as an example, collaborating with Loyalist Township to rebuild the walking path from Empire Court to the tennis courts and maintain it reasonably throughout the year would be a welcomed expense, to provide a safer environment and more pedestrian traffic, not vehicle traffic.

    Re the current facilities and strategies envisioned, new resources enhancing the golf course tees, fairways, greens and bunkers et al to its former lush and pristine condition, serving the neighbourhood membership base first, rather than old “where the pros play”, and “shotgun tournaments” attitude also be enhanced and welcomed.

    On another note, It would not seem that Kaitlin will not likely offer the golden goose to us who left behind their LCC memberships former members come back into the membership.

    Be assured that declining to continue a Loyalist CC membership wasn’t what former members wanted years past, a continuing valued relationship from Kaitlin and Loyalist CC management was.

    A personable respected quid pro quo!!

    Sadly, recent comments reflect that the quid pro quo expected by newer community members isn’t evident.

    Living in this community has not all been bad news, friendships fabricated and still enjoyed in this community with reasonable, rational, caring folks has made living here worthwhile.

    Lastly, we should remember that the potential for a “now” fulfilling and “future and later” fulfilling worthwhile lifestyle continue to exist in spite of Kaitlin and Loyalist CC.

    Enough said!!

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    Where is our Focus Group who are supposed to be the voice for the CCC members?? The $150 credit to the house account is an insult, especially as 13% + 15% is added to purchases on the house account. As a number of errors and problems have occurred with this account many of us have opted to pay cash and not give the club our credit card information. Does this mean we do not have a house account and therefore get no credit for our membership dues?

    A reduction of the annual membership fees (and not credit to the house account) should be equal or greater than the 2021 fees as compensation for the closure of clubhouse facilities and activities for a comparable number of days to 2020. If management hasn’t noticed we are still battling a pandemic and further closures and restrictions are very possible. Pre Covid fees should not even be considered.

    On another note I have issue with the fact that as a 1 adult household I am paying the same amount as 2 or 3 adult households. I don’t golf and the pool was only open for a short time in the summer. The numbers were restricted to 3 people at a time until we had to share with the children from the golf camp, then the numbers changed dramatically. The hot tub hasn’t worked for a couple of years now and I can’t even remember when the waterfall worked.

    With no backyard parties (although there were a number of weddings) or club activities we don’t seem to be getting much for the dues charged. As is stands we receive very little for our annual membership dues and a good majority of the members are realizing that they hardly seem worthwhile.

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    I am truly appalled at Kaitlin’s gall. I bought in early 2020 and was told by someone named “Lacey” that l needed a card etc to access the club and facilities. After many, many calls and messages later,  
    l was told that it was forthcoming. I have not received any info or “card” from Kaitlin or the clubhouse staff; therefore l have never put a foot in the clubhouse.
    I paid my dues in Jan 2021, being the “eternal optimist,”  after making seventeen long distance calls to hopefully “connect” with somebody, l knew this was not a good sign of a well run establishment!!!
    These past weeks after receiving Kaitlin’s email, l discussed with members of other golf club communities my personal experiences to date. They all say the same thing, walk away, do not pay and say goodbye. We worked hard to get where we are and why throw it away for only limited garden disposal privileges?
    Kaitlin, no thank you! Hopefully, the lack of money talks to you, but, your sullied reputation and my personal experience tell me otherwise!
    What a total disappointment! And finally, l see that l am not alone in my thoughts on how the clubhouse is (not) managed. Thank you for your comments!

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    Are we going to hear anything from Kaitlin Focus Group OR Kaitlin OR Kaitlin Management in regards to all of these comments BEFORE our fees are due this month. What will be the point in all of us expressing our opinions and disappointments if nothing is to come of it? It is sad to think that this was once a retirement dream community but now the members are all but forgotten and dismissed. I do not mind paying fees for something but In reading all of these comments and noting that not much has changed in the last few years I have made my decision and I am out! My money can be better spent elsewhere than donating to Kaitlin’s coffers.

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    Does the focus group represent only CCC members or all of the community? I understand that one of the few advocates for our community was unceremoniously and cowardly excused from his duties on the Focus Group. It seems to me, that the fox is guarding the hen house. That is typically the way management works here at Loyalist.

    THE ONLY WAY KAITLIN WILL LISTEN IS IF WE ALL STOP PAYING OUR DUES! It seems that management doesn’t want us to frequent the clubhouse for lunches or dinners as the food and alcohol prices are exorbitant. The plus side is we will have our own restaurant and pub in Bath by the name of Welbourne Commons where they will appreciate our business. As Jim Burlington said to one of the members, I am here to run the golf course not run a restaurant. That is so evident now.

    It has been our experience that Loyalist management is mean spirited and vindictive.

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    We gave up our membership a few years ago after we sat down and looked at the value we were getting for our money and decided it was not a great deal. The only thing we benefited from was the Backyard Parties so we opted to pay the higher price for the dinners and save the $1,200.00 for something else we would enjoy.

    Does the focus group represent only CCC members or all of the community? I understand that one of the few advocates for our community was unceremoniously and cowardly excused from his duties on the Focus Group. It seems to me, that the fox is guarding the hen house. That is typically the way management works here at Loyalist.

    THE ONLY WAY KAITLIN WILL LISTEN IS IF WE ALL STOP PAYING OUR DUES! It seems that management doesn’t want us to frequent the clubhouse for lunches or dinners as the food and alcohol prices are exorbitant. The plus side is we will have our own restaurant and pub in Bath by the name of Welbourne Commons where they will appreciate our business. As Jim Burlington said to one of the members, I am here to run the golf course not run a restaurant. That is so evident now.

    It has been our experience that Loyalist management is mean spirited and vindictive.

    Is anything productive come as a result of these comments?

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    We moved here eight years ago with the thoughts of all the wonderful privileges that we could look forward to. Little did we know that we would be limited. Not being able to use the cart paths for evening walks, not being able to skate on the ponds and cross-country skiing was totally forbidden. Why all the restrictions when other golf clubs can do it! There are ways that Kaitlin can protect themselves from liability but they’re definitely not interested in looking into it. I understand Kaitlin has had the same lawyer for many years. Perhaps it’s time to look for a new, more modern lawyer who shows interest for the good of the community instead of just lining Kaitlin’s pockets.
    What we get and what we are paying for don’t match. Where Kaitlin came up with the $150.00 credit is a total farce and an insult to the community. They’re not interested in the people only their money. Loyalist Golf Community is such a great place to live in so many ways but the Kaitlin Group leaves a bad taste in our mouth. Hopefully Kaitlin will take a lot of these comments under consideration and give the residents the time of day instead of just sluffing them off.

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    I have lived here over 25 yrs and paid dues every year. We used to be able to walk the path of the course and enjoyed it so after dinner. Not any more. We used to have outdoor gatherings (before the clubhouse} and had lots of fun. We used to be able to walk the course after dinner and enjoyed it so. Not any more.
    Sure we have a pool, a clubhouse, a dining room, etc but due due to many reasons we cannot use them now. However, Kaitlin want us to continue paying but offering us a modest $150. credit. What a joke. Who’s in charge here? Lets see some action here.

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    I would rather have had a decent decrease in fees like last time than a credit. There are rumblings among many residents that they are not happy and who are thinking of opting out. What does our money get us – I live on my own and pay the same as couples, I don’t golf and have not had much access to the facility due to covid. I also don’t understand why we can’t walk along the course paths in the winter like many other courses allow. Our fees could pay for liability insurance if that is the reason. These are my thoughts.

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    So LCC members who decide to not renew their ($1,200. +) membership will get nothing, no rebate nor a credit for the 2021 year, while those renewing will get a $150. credit? Let’s not forget that a $150. credit is really costing Kaitlin about $50. to $75.: their approx. cost for what you would spend it on, and actually costing them nearly nothing if that credit is used toward golf!
    Gotta give ‘credit’ (pun) to whoever thought that one up! Just sayin…
    Alas, the $1,200. I don’t hand over to Kaitlin (for practically nothing for me), will go alot further for me than a $150. credit would! Just sayin…
    I’ve also often wondered why single occupant homes (of which there are many here) pay the same amount as households with 2, 3 (and more) persons living there, all making use of identical facilities! Just saying…

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    So many unhappy members. If all of these people don’t pay their dues that’s about $77,600.00 alone, in one year. That’s not counting all the members that have not commented and are also disgruntled. Kaitlin needs to listen to it’s people. This course is a gem and could be so much more with course upgrades and grooming and turning the clubhouse into a profitable facility that all members would enjoy. We deserve better management in all areas.

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    What are our fees used for? It is very disappointing that there is no accountability for our monies. We are not allowed to walk on the golf course when it is closed. Why? We drive by The Cataraqui GCC and Napanee CC and you see people walking and sledding. Hmm doesn’t make sense that we can’t us our own backyards. The Clubhouse could be a goldmine if the effort was made. I also agree $150. is an insult. I think Kaitlin needs to answer our questions.

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    Loyalist Community is a great place to live with incredible people. We are golfers and have enjoyed and supported the golf course for the last few years. We are also CCC members. The issue in our minds is CCC members are asking for value for their CCC membership. Open up the pathways in the winter for a few months on the golf course so we can enjoy the outdoors, get the survey out so we can begin our journey on Clubhouse improvements, in the spring fix the hot tub and waterfall (order parts now) so the pool is ready to go for May 24 weekend. Hire enough staff so we can enjoy a healthy meal at the club. This pandemic will end and it is time to inject some positive energy into the club house. Sunday brunches outdoors, continue, with the fabulous Chef Tables, outdoor yoga and stretch classes, art classes, author circles there are so many exciting ideas that could be coordinated by the club. I feel Kaitlin has no idea what has been happening here over the last few years. I am sure they would support these ideas as they do at other sites (Bayport). Let’s work together Kaitlin to implement value to our membership and be proactive.

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    The comments do not surprise me as we hear this everyday in the past 6 plus years we have been here. We share equal feelings. Lower the dues for 2022 using a similar principal as last year. However our dues should show visible value.

    1) an annual accounting of dues and how $ are spent on providing that value to members.

    2) a positive and genuine caring culture by the “management” that allows all of us to have ownership and pride in our facilities. This is something they market but in no way deliver.

    3)start putting in upgrades that are sorely needed… ie wheelchair access to all facilities including pool, focus on health and wellness allowing use of paths during off golf times, large fitness rooms with windows as well as 24 hr access to members. It would be wonderful to go for a walk and hear positive things about Kaitlin and the team running the show. I’m not confident there is a desire to improve.

    4)lastly, give Mauricio a huge raise and autonomy. He is the epitome of what good public relations looks like and brings it out in his staff as well. It seems effortless how he makes people feel valued.

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    Agreed with all the preceding. I will add that if you go against the manager he holds a grudge…be aware

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    Most comments are saying the same thing, not receiving value for the annual dues, this has been going on for many years now with no change in site.
    We need an Experienced Country Club Manager! But the only way this is going to happen is if we collectively withhold the annual dues for Kaitlin to see he has a problem! He is a business man, and when he sees a major hit in revenue, he just might take a more serious look at what has been going on for a long time now! Change will only happen if you express your grievances on the comments section and withhold your annual dues!

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    We just moved here a two years ago, are still working and agree with most of the above listed comments. The community is great and people are wonderful. We are CCC members and find that the membership fees have provided very little value, especially in the past two years. The increase of the fees for 2022 is not acceptable. The COVID pandemic is by far not over, the facilities are already closed again and we do not know how the pandemic is going to impact the services this year. The fees should be reduced using a consistent calculation – based on the actual opening days in 2021 (same basis as for 2020) and actual staffing hours for club activities; We also would like to see how Kaitlin is using the membership fees moving forward and would suggest the following – increasing costumer and membership service by:

    1) Providing gym access 24 hours a day, 7 days a week – especially in the fall and winter time!
    2) Access to club house, facilities, events, classes and other health related or social activities also after regular business hours – provide access, service and activities for working professionals at least until 8 pm during the week and also during the holidays, when people actually have the time to take advantage of the service;
    3) Golf course pathway use for walking, running, snow shoeing, cross country skiing whenever the golf course is closed, especially in the fall, winter and spring time
    4) Pool and hot tube access in the summer – longer hours and better maintenance (the water sometimes tastes salty – is the daily fresh water supply sufficient and based on bather numbers? the pool properly maintained? The hot tube has not been in service since we live here – it would be great if we could use it!)
    5) Compost area hours – accessible also in the afternoon on Saturday and the whole Sunday (8 am to 7pm) and longer in the fall, earlier in spring time
    6) Weekend brunches a la Plaza Rive Sud with healthy and fresh food, drinks and great service would be greatly appreciated!

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    I am very impressed with the quality and content of these comments. I do agree there is a big problem
    and a lot of dis-satisfied residents who regard management as being mean-spirited . There is a lack of joy
    and goodwill.
    My question is ,have these comments been sent to Jim Burlington and William J. Daniels?
    If not why not?

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    I am also annoyed that this years dues are the same rate as 2020, When covid began . Last year the membership was awarded a discount of $350. This past year the clubhouse was closed for more days than it was open which affected numerous events. Only the golf course operated all season, but we did not see one Backyard Party or other events that could have been done outside.

    We believe that, at the least Kaitlin should offer the same deal as last year 2021 was a very bad year for everyone, no socializing , no exercise etc. So what are we paying for? If everyone refused to pay this ridiculous amount I am sure Katllin would have to take a good look. I wonder if they even see these comments. Perhaps we could copy the comments and SNAIL mail them to Jeff Daniels. That way we would know it arrived, was seen . Hopefully some rethinking on their part would happen xxxxx that is my fingers crossed

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    We feel that the cost of the membership is not worth what you get. Especially this past few years with Covid in the area. We did not use the facilities much this year including playing cards or using the unfit equipment in the lower level. We did not use the pool at all this year.
    The clubhouse is most of the time a mess with dirty and old carpet.
    I really feel that there should be a annual charge for every house in the community where the facilities would be used more and make the prices in the restaurant a better value.
    We are really thinking of not renewing our ccc membership this year. One reason is Kaitlin themselves who think of this community as a cash cow.
    Thanks and looking forward to other comments.

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    To add salt to the wound…
    We now get a demand to pay by month end. Even though no one is in the office to receive. Pay by mail they say, whoever the author is. What is offensive is the lack of consideration for the customer, the coldness… but then that’s local management for you.

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    No one so far has mentioned that during the first wave, loyalist dipped into the Federal funds for relief. So it’s all about the money, not customer service, it’s self service.

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    So agree with most of the above comments. I think this management needs to look at what other golf clubs do for their members. I still don’t understand what the $10,000 was for. That should cover our membership PERIOD, like it would at other clubs where you get showers and lockers, etc…. I only pay so I can use the pool, which works out to a very expensive swim. I hear every year more people aren’t going to pay. Hopefully something is done soon before you lose us all.

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    The hours of the clubhouse need to change as well. We don’t all go to bed at 8pm. When covid is over it would be a great meeting place in the evening.

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    Focus group is composed of residents, but how many of them are ‘investors’ with an interest to keep full fees in place?

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    Because of the dissatisfaction of the past few years we are cancelling our membership to the CCC and cancelling payment.
    We just feel that for what we pay we are not getting the value we expected or our money’s worth. Over the past couple of years because of Covid we have not used the facilities whether it was the clubhouse or the pool.
    One of the concerns and comments I have heard are regarding the pool area which we have used in the past but found that the pool was dirty, the water falls did not work most of the time and the hot tub was most of the time not hot and did not work very well.
    The inside of the clubhouse had dirty carpet and equipment in the gym area was not up to standard. Also, most of the time if people wanted to use the gym facilities it can only be used during certain hours. Not available for many of the community members.
    I feel that Kaitlin is not interested in the people of this community and are only looking at the bottom line.
    Shame on you as you have to deal with the people in this community and I feel that the people who have paid money to you over the past are not being looked after in anyway.
    As for the restaurant we do not use this area as I feel that the prices are too high and we get better value in other restaurants in the area.
    After reading the comments on the LCCRA website I got the feeling that this will not be the only letter you will be receiving.

    Dave & Bea Stewart

    Our address is;
    17 Hawley Crt
    K0H1G0

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    The whole mess falls at the feet of management who are solely short term thinkers. It has been driven down by the singular goal of making a profit for the owners. No thought on long range planning that would provide happy retained clients AND a profit.

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    We all agree that there is no value for what is offered…so what are we going to do about it as a group…the old saying “there’s power in numbers”l suggest we find out first who is on the lccra committee…second have them draw up a petition to be signed by the concerned members, then send out the response from Katlin to the community … so we can see how this petition is being handled…one other thing I think should be looked at is where the course has its recycling area…I don’t know of any other golf course that has a dump in their parking lot what a nice message this is sending anybody visiting our beautiful course…Katlin has lots of other areas to have a recycled area…ie the extension of country club in the woods out of site…so let’s get something going…I hope we hear from our committee…we are also considering canceling our membership…

    Editors note.. The LCCRA does not represent LCC Members. This is the responsibility of the Focus Group. The Focus Group is selected and controlled by Kaitlin.

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      And here I foolishly thought the Focus Group consisted of interested community volunteers! I now understand why Kaitlin purged the Group’s capable president. Should definitely be renamed something more akin to a commitee working FOR Kaitlin…

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    No one has mentioned communication. I find the anonymous missives to be cold, poorly written and condescending at times. They are poorly thought out with no thought about how they will be received. They come across as simple satisfying the need to say local management communicates with members. Key items from client perspective are popped in almost as after thoughts. But the tone is always there… cold, unfriendly, mechanical – not something that you would expect in promotional emails. Compare this to the kaitlin Sales material. Chalk to Cheese.

    Another annoyance is the lack of a membership agreement. One showing the obligations and penalties placed on the provider and the client. But then that would tie loyalist down. Something their lawyer would never ever agree. The current loose wild west approach suits kaitlin.

    As a prior contributor has said.. members probably never will call their bluff and cancel their membership. Now though house prices have escalated sufficiently that walking away from the artificial membership $10k membership, artificial discounts and no/poor service is feasible. Mind you loyalist has already had lawyers turned on them at least once.

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    I’m new to the community and have a few suggestions:
    1. Since we have no control over the public health restrictions can the members be allowed to walk/snow shoe/cross country on the golf course? Numerous golf courses allow this already.
    2. For the upcoming renovation for the Clubhouse, can we have an indoor Golf Simulator that members can use especially during the cold winter months?
    3. Another suggestion for the upcoming renovation would be a heated swimming pool or hot tub that members can use especially during the winter months.

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    No walking on golf courses path, no updated workout equipment, no paided instructor for fitness classes,pool ,no hot tub most of the summer, pub and restaurant with minimal menu and staffing, no cook,need to clean house on your management team,poorly run,and no personality, very unfriendly.If you had better management you might be able to keep good staff, Bottom line need NEW management.

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    Yesterday, we were out walking after the snowstorm and observed a real sense of community. People helping people shovelling and ploughing their driveways. This morning is a beautiful sunny day where we could be enjoying a walk, ski or snowshoe without having to get the car out and drive. Clearly, allowing access to the golf course would be step forward in working collaboratively.

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    Thanks for making us all aware of the breakdown of the fees. We agree with many of the above comments . Obviously, customer satisfaction is last on the list for this company, who sees only money in their fist. Keeping the fees the same and providing less service than than the previous year, is ridiculously unfair, as is the offer of a $150.00 club credit. I would much rather have refunded money in my pocket, to use as I see fit, not how Kaitlin thinks we should spend it. The refund for services not provided, needs to be equal to, or more, than the money refunded the previous year.
    It is getting harder than every year, to justify paying our membership fee. Kaitlin’s response to this survey, might be the tipping point for us. Totally agree, new management with new ideas and respect for it’s member, is needed .

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      Kaitlin’s (non) response thus far seems to prove the only thing their interested in is quite obvious! They’ve had lots of time to digest and respond to our concerns but still, as their latest email (directive?) shows, just give them $1,200. (again) and go away! Come on everyone, forego any further payment/donations to them until they show some type of commitment. They’ve had YEARS to show their interest in this community! Let our refusal to give in show we’re finally fed up and won’t take any more of this procastinating!!

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    We moved in April 2020 and haven’t used any services. We have continued to pay our dues but feel they are a waste of money. We are undecided about our 2022 dues. The in-house credit is absolutely useless to us because we don’t have a house account and again we haven’t used the facilities. As a matter-of-fact we didn’t activate our access cards for 2021.

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    I am really amazed at how many dissatisfied Loyalist’s members there are.
    Rumours abound because of lack of communication between members and the clubhouse.
    Now I realize that perhaps what I hear sporadically are not just rumours.
    Does Kaitlyn realize or care? Or do these comments go into cyberspace.

    It gives members a way to vent, but could it be an opportunity to evoke change.
    Only Kaitlyn can answer that question.

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    This is the second time I have responded to this issue re dues. The lack of response from Kaitlin has cemented my decision re. what to do in this situation. After much deliberation I have determined it is in my best interests to cancel my membership. I have doubts that this will in any way encourage Kaitlin to change their policy on fees for this year, although I wish they would. This place could be geat and I will kick myself if they finally do what all the above are suggesting and I am no longer a member to enjoy the potential benefits of a new and much improved club. I feel that Kaitlin in playing a game of chicken with all of us. I don’t use the club a great deal but when I do I enjoy the comradarie it provides. There are certain things I will miss, but goodbye. Decision made!

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    It is apparent after reading so many of the member’s comments, that their main concern is the lack of value for their membership fees.

    Having a shiny and newly renovated clubhouse is great.
    However lack of access at more reasonable hours seems to tarnish that appeal.

    Perhaps a group of volunteers might allow the clubhouse to remain open longer to accommodate all members.
    If not what is the purpose of a members’ clubhouse?

    This is not a new concept for management. They already manage a very successful volunteer marshalling program. Why not expand this to a volunteer group to manage some services in the clubhouse.

    Of course volunteers would require proper training, be screened and possess necessary training certificates such as Smart Serve Ontario.

    Other sports and music clubs have done this and very successfully, resulting in happy and engaged members.

    Just like the marshalling program at our club, incentives would be necessary. Perhaps some free golf, discounts off meals, gift certificates, and or discounts off golf apparel and or equipment.

    Bill and I managed a Jazz Club in Edmonton called the Yardbird Suite.
    ( https://yardbirdsuite.com)
    It is a one of a kind volunteer operated jazz club.

    The few paid employed persons managed accounts, club finances and booked performers.

    We as managers were provided free tickets to performances as well as the one we saw when volunteering. Gas coupons for travel to the club were also provided.

    As managers, we required to open and close the club, meet and greet performers, introduce them to the audience and then ultimately pay them at end of their performance.

    Our duties also included arranging volunteers for a specific date, training and supervising them during the evening. In return we paid them with free tickets to a performance of their choice. After all this is why they volunteered.

    It was essential that we made the volunteers feel appreciated. In return, we had a great group of volunteers who wanted to return.

    Volunteers were members of the Edmonton Jazz Society. Their services included operation of the bar (dispensing alcohol and other beverages and obtaining funds), operation of the ticket office, security, and service for club performers (pickup at airport) facility cleanup and assisting managers in closing.

    The volunteers were also responsible for handling cash and cash-value coupons and ensuring they reconciled at the end of the evening.

    Another very effective and well run volunteer program is managed by the Napanee Curling club. Volunteers screen curlers, help clean ice, organize fun curling and social events and, serve alcoholic beverages at the bar provided they have the Ontario Smart Serve training.

    It would seem that more accessible activities could be provided to users of the Loyalist Country Club by volunteers.

    Volunteers could come from both the Loyalist CC community here in Bath and surrounding area. As a result, the club would achieve greater visibility and increase their customer base.

    It is our view that involving members of the community in the operation of the LCC would provide a sense of pride and ownership in the LCC facility.

    Perhaps this might be a positive solution for our membership and management.

    Bill and Judy Hume
    .

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    My husband and I have lived here for four years and additionally had membership in the club.
    We have given up the membership for many of the comments expressed by others.
    Before covid I felt that the restaurant was very underutilized. There is so much space in this facility that sits empty most of the time.
    As well, I had additionally suggested that I would be willing to plan, organize and implement in one of the rooms on the lower level movie nights. I have a plethora of dvd movies and concerts that I would be happy to make available.
    A new large screen tv along with a good sound system would need to be purchased. We could charge a minimum fee that would pay for this purchase over time.
    We could have popcorn, drinks etc. Never heard anything further
    I think that any committee s Need to have Some visionaries that are forward thinkers. You could also have the option of a dinner movie package.
    I would also recommend leasing out restaurant space to someone who has experience running a restaurant. The riverfront pub in Napanee is a great example of a restaurant that has grown exponentially.
    I am a senior so I feel comfortable saying this, to those who say prices are high at restaurants, perhaps we are just out of touch. Prices at Riverfront pub are high but offer great quality and options. We have a wonderful setting at the clubhouse at it could become a go to place for potential customers from Kingston, Picton, Belleville and Napanee. People want an experience not just food and are willing to pay a good price for food quality, great service and good atmosphere.
    If one were to do this they would obviously have to promote it. As it stands now, I can’t see too many travelling outside our little community to go there.
    Management should be sent to another well run facility to see how they operate. For example Cobble Beach or alternatively have a consultant who would come in and assess all areas of the business and make recommendations re. Human resource management, facility, customer service, business systems with a view to improving efficiency, productivity and customer service. It could be a win win for everyone including Kaitlin.

    Sincerely

    Sandra Gregg

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    We are recent new members as we moved here in mid Autumn, and had for a couple of years been attracted to the “lifestyle” atmosphere promoted here. Thus far we are loving the neighbourhood and neighbours. We are looking forward to warmer weather, golfing, etc. After reading the comments here however, I have to agree that what is advertised and what is presented are not the same.

    After touring the clubhouse, I can see amazing potential where business would be greatly increased if only the owners were interested in that. Having three young adult children for example, the wedding venue at first glance looked lovely for potential family weddings, but then looking at the floor… sorely in need of something new, (just one example).

    As well we were disappointed to hear that the restaurant/bar is very limited in terms of availability and services, with the right promotions, menu, etc. it could be so much more! Equally shocking is the $10.00 a beer cost at the bar – where does anyone pay $10.00 for a regular beer? Again, discouraging rather than encouraging business, and explains why, when my husband golfed he noticed many of the golfers do not stop for the traditional beer after the game.

    While my husband is the golfer, I was attracted to the idea of a pool/hot tub and while still looking forward to trying it out this summer, am disappointed to hear that the hot tub is non existent. While I watch three dogs race across the golf course apparently in the name of keeping the geese away, I walked my dog around the neighbourhood, trying to loop through the path at the end of Greenhaven only to see signs that leashed dogs were not suppose to be by the clubhouse area???

    To not be able to pass through mainly the parking lot to loop through the neighbourhood with my leashed dog seems ludicrous and I would like some clarification on that one. I understand from some of my longer term neighbours, that membership is dropping. No surprise there as I listen to quite a few of them discussing whether or no they will continue paying a substantial membership fee, including both longer term residents and fairly new ones.

    As we have just arrived, I would hate to think we are moving into something that is going to deteriorate and fade away. Again, we see so much potential and are still excited to be here, but are hoping that management will actually take all these suggestions here seriously before it all implodes from within.

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